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I rather foolishly allowed John Lewis to replace my failing HDR FOX T2 with a HDR 2000T. The main gripe is that the “2000T” can’t handle old TV programmes which were originally produced in 4:3. “Hi-Di-Hi” etc, (yes I know I’m sad)
It outputs them to my (Samsung 16:9 TV) in 4:3 mode, whereas my HDR FOX T2 somehow changed them to the desired 16:9 mode. I’ve tried every possible menu option but nothing seems to work.
I really wish that I had insisted that the “Fox” had been repaired (it was the hard disk / power supply capacitors that were failing), but they insisted that Humax wouldn’t entertain a repair. The guarantee only had 3 months to run – knowing what I know now I really should have got it repaired by a third party.
Has anyone solved the 4:3 / 16:9 issue yet?
Broadcasters transmit 4:3 programmes in different ways.
For example the Horror channel broadcasts all its 4:3 content as 16:9 with black bars added by the broadcaster. As far as the TV is concerned it is a widescreen programme.
True entertainment broadcast some of their 4:3 programmes as 4:3 and leave it to the receiver to adjust the black-bars/zoom.
True entertainment also broadcast some other 4:3 programmes as 4:3 but add black bars resulting in some TVs’ options displaying a squashed up picture.
Can you be more specific about which current programmes are causing the issue and whether you also watch those specific programmes on the HDR-FOX T2?
Please would you also clarify how you like the 4:3 to be displayed. I.e. were there any black bars om the screen, and was the aspect ratio preserved so that circles, for example, stayed circular instead of turning into ovals.
OK, thanks for the swift reply.
Today on BBC2 there was a programme “Six nations revisited” which consisted of a current discussion and archive footage of very old rugby matches, the current discussions part of the programme was shown on my TV as full screen 16:9, but when the programme switched to old archive footage the display reverted to a 4:3 type display, by that I mean it had thick black lines at each end of the display with a 4:3 type image centred mid-screen.
Sorry that’s not a very good technical description.
This is also happening with “Some mother’s do ‘ave ’em”, also on BBC2.
I really want both old and new TV programmes to fill the 16:9 screen, noting that my old “Topfield 5800” automatically does this with ease.
I am sure my departed FOX T2 also showed these type of programmes the way I want them.
I’ve recorded the start of Hi-de-Hi on an HDR-2000T and an HDR-FOX T2. I can get the HDR-FOX T2 to stretch the picture sideways but not the HDR-2000T when watching the same programme.
The Hi-de-hi format is:
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Active Format Description : Pillarbox 4:3 image
On my Sony TV there is an additional option for each HDMI input that it can have one picture option for full 16:9 and another for when the ratio changes to 4:3. Unfortunately I don’t remember that there is the same option on Samsung TVs. Or is there?
I have very recently i.e. within the last few days started a thread on this forum about the very same subject – see HERE
There is no way around it I’m afraid other than manually manually adjusting it by setting it to 4.3 and Auto.
My Panasonic TV deals with all such material as I would wish i.e. 4.3 programmes fill the screen, no black bars. Sadly this option has passed Humax by.
Faust – 28 minutes ago »
I have very recently i.e. within the last few days started a thread on this forum about the very same subject – see HERE
There is no way around it I’m afraid other than manually manually adjusting it by setting it to 4.3 and Auto.
My Panasonic TV deals with all such material as I would wish i.e. 4.3 programmes fill the screen, no black bars. Sadly this option has passed Humax by.
There are only two ways that a 4:3 image can fill a 16:9 display.
1 Stretch the image horizontally so a circle would look like an ellipse with the major axis horizontal.
2 Zoom into the image so that pixels are lost from the top and bottom, this retains the image aspect ratio but loses image content and reduces the image resolution (The TV scaler has to invent the extra pixels required).
To watch the every pixel in the original content without distorting the picture you have to have black bars at each side of the image.
What do you do about Blu-ray content with a wider aspect ratio than 16:9, which of course needs black bars top and bottom, to ensure there is either no loss of picture content or aspect ratio distortion ?
The only way to see the complete picture the original 4:3 content was created with in the correct aspect ratio is with the black bars at both sides of the image.
To Faust: – OK, my apologies for starting a new thread when an existing one covered the subject. I guess the next thing for me to do is to look at the options available with my Samsung TV.
To Luke: – Thanks for confirming my experiences with the “HDR FOX T2” versus the “HDR-2000T”
To sum up the findings so far it seems that I can get a reasonable picture on my TV by setting the Screen Ratio to 4:3 and the Display format to Letterbox 16:9 or Letterbox 14:9. This seems to work for programmes like Hi-De-Hi which are (apparently) 100% broadcast in 4:3. Not sure of what happens with programmes like “Six nations rewind” on BBC 2 which seems to contain 16:9 and 4:3 content.
Tomorrow I will record “Whatever happened to the likely lads” on the Drama channel, to see if there is any difference in the way the HDR 2000t handles it.
Quote:The only way to see the complete picture the original 4:3 content was created with in the correct aspect ratio is with the black bars at both sides of the image.If memory serves me correctly Graham you have a Panasonic TV? That doesn’t display 4.3 material with the black vertical bars, or at least mine doesn’t. What is that doing with the picture – stretching it I presume?
Quote:What do you do about Blu-ray content with a wider aspect ratio than 16:9, which of course needs black bars top and bottom, to ensure there is either no loss of picture content or aspect ratio distortion ?Perverse I know, however, I don’t mind horizontal bars for cinemascope type content. I’m sure it must be something to do with the way the mind interprets the different options. Or there again it may simply be me.
ifred – 3 hours ago »
To Faust: – OK, my apologies for starting a new thread when an existing one covered the subject. I guess the next thing for me to do is to look at the options available with my Samsung TV.
To Luke: – Thanks for confirming my experiences with the “HDR FOX T2” versus the “HDR-2000T”
To sum up the findings so far it seems that I can get a reasonable picture on my TV by setting the Screen Ratio to 4:3 and the Display format to Letterbox 16:9 or Letterbox 14:9. This seems to work for programmes like Hi-De-Hi which are (apparently) 100% broadcast in 4:3. Not sure of what happens with programmes like “Six nations rewind” on BBC 2 which seems to contain 16:9 and 4:3 content.
Tomorrow I will record “Whatever happened to the likely lads” on the Drama channel, to see if there is any difference in the way the HDR 2000t handles it.
Try All Creatures Great and Small too – Channel 20 at 17:00 as that is in 4.3 as well.
When I can’t stand it any longer I either watch it through my TVs tuner which gives me full screen or set the 2000T to 4.3 and Auto – that works well.
OP would you be tuned into BBC2 HD and connected via HDMI?
If that’s the case then thats why 4:3 remains 4:3 because you cannot stretch 4:3 content on HD channels (or Blu-ray) over HDMI, however if you tune into BBC2 SD then you should find that you are able to stretch the 4:3 picture to fill the screen.
Gonzo, I am tuned to BBC2 SD (Channel 2) not BBC2 HD (Channel 102).
It’s been established that a reasonable picture of 4:3 programmes can be obtained on my Samsung tv, by setting the HDR2000T to 4:3 (Screen Ratio) and Auto (Display format).
It’s just that it’s irksome to have to delve into the menus to do this (and remember to reset the values when HD 16:9 programmes are to be viewed)
I just don’t remember having to do this with my departed HDR FOX T2.
ifred – 2 hours ago »
Gonzo, I am tuned to BBC2 SD (Channel 2) not BBC2 HD (Channel 102).
It’s been established that a reasonable picture of 4:3 programmes can be obtained on my Samsung tv, by setting the HDR2000T to 4:3 (Screen Ratio) and Auto (Display format).
It’s just that it’s irksome to have to delve into the menus to do this (and remember to reset the values when HD 16:9 programmes are to be viewed)
I just don’t remember having to do this with my departed HDR FOX T2.
This is why I use the tuner (if watching live) from the Panasonic TV as this knows how I like things and panders to my every whim
I think my Humax is female 🙄
Faust – 13 hours ago »
Quote:The only way to see the complete picture the original 4:3 content was created with in the correct aspect ratio is with the black bars at both sides of the image.If memory serves me correctly Graham you have a Panasonic TV? That doesn’t display 4.3 material with the black vertical bars, or at least mine doesn’t. What is that doing with the picture – stretching it I presume?
Quote:What do you do about Blu-ray content with a wider aspect ratio than 16:9, which of course needs black bars top and bottom, to ensure there is either no loss of picture content or aspect ratio distortion ?Perverse I know, however, I don’t mind horizontal bars for cinemascope type content. I’m sure it must be something to do with the way the mind interprets the different options. Or there again it may simply be me.
Mine has black bars. Take PAL DVD SD content. Both 16:9 and 4:3 content have the same number of pixels (720 x 576). The way the picture is displayed depends on the display correctly interpreting the pixel aspect ratio to create a frame in the correct aspect ratio. If the pixels are displayed at any other PAR the picture is distorted. a 16:9 DVD par correctly scaled fits on a 1920 x 1080 display without losing any content.
To remove the black bars on a 4:3 display and retain the correct par the only way is to expand the horizontal pixels to 1920. At this point the image must have more than 1080 pixels.
Broadcasters tend to cheat and in fact transmit a 16:9 image for 4:3 and pad the edges with black pixels. The image is actually 16:9 you just can’t see the black pixels only the ones within the 4:3 content.
grahamlthompson – 12 minutes ago »
Faust – 13 hours ago »
Quote:The only way to see the complete picture the original 4:3 content was created with in the correct aspect ratio is with the black bars at both sides of the image.If memory serves me correctly Graham you have a Panasonic TV? That doesn’t display 4.3 material with the black vertical bars, or at least mine doesn’t. What is that doing with the picture – stretching it I presume?
Quote:What do you do about Blu-ray content with a wider aspect ratio than 16:9, which of course needs black bars top and bottom, to ensure there is either no loss of picture content or aspect ratio distortion ?Perverse I know, however, I don’t mind horizontal bars for cinemascope type content. I’m sure it must be something to do with the way the mind interprets the different options. Or there again it may simply be me.
Mine has black bars. Take PAL DVD SD content. Both 16:9 and 4:3 content have the same number of pixels (720 x 576). The way the picture is displayed depends on the display correctly interpreting the pixel aspect ratio to create a frame in the correct aspect ratio. If the pixels are displayed at any other PAR the picture is distorted. a 16:9 DVD par correctly scaled fits on a 1920 x 1080 display without losing any content.
To remove the black bars on a 4:3 display and retain the correct par the only way is to expand the horizontal pixels to 1920. At this point the image must have more than 1080 pixels.
Broadcasters tend to cheat and in fact transmit a 16:9 image for 4:3 and pad the edges with black pixels. The image is actually 16:9 you just can’t see the black pixels only the ones within the 4:3 content.
Exactly. Very good summary.
Freeview could do everyone a service by persuading broadcasters not to do this padding-cheat thing but leave it to the user to make full use of their TV and/or STB options to display the picture according to individual preference.
Personally, I prefer the black-bars presentation of 4:3 content,, but many hate it, and IMO they shouldn’t have it forced upon them by the broadcasters.
Well that has me totally baffled now. Take a programme like All Creatures Great and Small – on the Humax I get the dreaded black bars whereas if I toggle inputs on the remote and select the Panasonic TVs tuner I have a full 47″ picture i.e. no black bars.
I sometimes get the horizontal bars with a cinemascope movie, as I do with a DVD. However, the Panny never produces a 4.3 picture with the sidebars – least not on mine it doesn’t.
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