Reffub – 1 minute ago  » 

Quote:

The reason that blu ray movies aren’t smooth is because the box does not support 24Hz content. The effect is the same as playing a blu ray on a TV without 24Hz support (it’s upscaled to 60Hz using drop frame processing). If you have a blu ray player with usb playback you will get smooth playback without any messing about in the TV. My HDR-1000S plays back 1080p 50Hz content perfectly. There is no problem with iplayer 50Hz content.

I have all video processing options off on my Panasonic TV.

You’re over complicating things again, these boxes don’t have bluray drives to play actual Blurays do they ? Obviously I was referring to actual Blu-ray Discs yes the ones played on bluray players hopefully connected to TV’s that fully supports bluray content. You on the other hand are just referring to encodes rips x264/x265 etc etc played via the media player.

My comment was more general about TV/ movie frame rates and the illusion of smooth motion. As I said it is only an illusion, some brains are fooled easier than others !

Not over complicating things at all.

You was the one that brought up blu-ray which is virtually always 1080p24. Try some HD trailers. Much of the streamed content you get is also 1080p24 (Plenty on YouTube), if the device doesn’t support 24p you get exactly the issue you describe. Blu Ray does not support 1080p at a higher frame rate than 24 frames/second. To get 50/60 frames you have to go down to 1280 x 720 (720p50 720p60). My DSLR also produces 1080p24 video which looks jerky on the HDR-1000S but plays fine via my blu-ray usb port.

http://www.hd-trailers.net/

As to comparing playback of blu-ray to a broadcast or streamed source, that’s just daft. Blu ray’s typically use around 28mbps compared to an average broadcast bitrate of around 8 – 10Mbps.

All video is a series of still images. It’s not possible to transmit every full image using digital modulation. It was possible using one UHF carrier using analogue modulation (one channel per carrier).

Digital HD broadcasting requires a non intraframe compression system (DV PAL digital camcorders had a intraframe compression codec). Intraframe has a non lossy compression system with full pixel data for each and every frame of the recording. As a result bitrate is high and file sizes are large. (about 4GB for every 20 minutes).

Digital broadcasting requires a lossy compression system where ultimate quality depends on bitrate allocated to each channel and the efficiency of the codec used to achieve the lossy compression,

SD channels use the same compression video codec developed for DVD (mpeg2).

HD ones use the later more efficient H264/AVC

UHD ones use the newer more efficient H265 codec.

Advances in the modulation system used (DVB-T/T2 DVB-S/S2 and in some cases (as on satellite) using a less robust fec (error correction

system) thanks to higher UK spotbeam field strengths to increase the available bandwidth.

A fact some Panasonic and Sony Freesat TV owners will attest to, having lost ITV 1 HD reception.

Unfortunately history does not support your point of view, most broadcasters (especially Sky) use the enhanced bitrate arising from version 2 modulation (and possible less robust forward error correct ion) to simply cram more channels into the now somewhat expanded bandwidth.

It’s certain the UK will before long switch off all DVB-T Freeview mux to replace them with DVB-T2 mux. Don’t expect more channels the bandwidth will be sold as was the upper half of the UHF banwidth to the highest bidder.

Sorry to burst your bubble, bitrates for broadcast TV will decline from the superb initial BBC HD test at 19Mbps from 28.2E as viewed on Pioneer Kuro HD TV. They had the impact you get now on a 4K TV viewed from a UHD blu ray (with the possible exception of the non resolution gains) you get from the HDR enchanced colour depth. I reckon a high bitrate HDR HD transmission system would be much superior for most viewers unable to sit close to a 4K TV and use much less valuable bandwidth.

Resolution is a tiny part of the video quality. 720p50 can look much better than bitrate restricted 1080i quality simply because the motion artefacts are much less.

Bitrate makes a massive difference to how smooth and detailed the video looks. Putting it as simply as possible the higher the bitrate the less video information is lost so the re-invented frames are much closer to the original data.

Anyone with a HD camcorder or DVD recorder will tell you that. At the same framerate the higher bitrate settings produces way better pictures than the lower ones at the expense of producing much larger files.

If you watch a blu ray with your fancy processing turned off it will look much superior to HD from broadcast TV even if you let the box de-interlace and double the frame rate to 50 fps. That’s 24 fps compared to 50 fps.

You surely aren’t saying broadcast HD looks better than blu ray ?

They both use the same compression codec, only difference is bitrate and frame rate.

You should try looking at the i frames of HD TV using a video editor zoomed into single frame resolution.

grahamlthompson – 1 hour ago  » 

Bitrate makes a massive difference to how smooth and detailed the video looks. Putting it as simply as possible the higher the bitrate the less video information is lost so the re-invented frames are much closer to the original data.

Anyone with a HD camcorder or DVD recorder will tell you that. At the same framerate the higher bitrate settings produces way better pictures than the lower ones at the expense of producing much larger files.

If you watch a blu ray with your fancy processing turned off it will look much superior to HD from broadcast TV even if you let the box de-interlace and double the frame rate to 50 fps. That’s 24 fps compared to 50 fps.

You surely aren’t saying broadcast HD looks better than blu ray ?

They both use the same compression codec, only difference is bitrate and frame rate.

You should try looking at the i frames of HD TV using a video editor zoomed into single frame resolution.

Yes I’d rather watch video at high bitrates with crystal clear clarity but I also like smooth motion, you don’t magically get perfect motion by increasing bitrates. I’m not saying that high bitrates won’t help it just that they aren’t the answer. Current frame rates aren’t enough to fool my brain I don’t want to watch blurry jumping panning shots and with my TV “fancy processing” I don’t have to.

Obviously you don’t think that there is anything wrong with the current frames rates so this conversation is all rather pointless. You perceive perfectly smooth motion with standard TV and film I do not. You think that big/small box menu transition looks smooth, I think it could be smoother.

Yes I know that many people find the 90 year old 24 a magical frame rate and it provides them with perfect and realistic motion and I’m very happy for them. But the fact is Blu-ray Discs with their high bitrates don’t look smooth to everyone.