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GrahamRHK – 22 hours ago »
Interestingly – when I set to record Last night of the Proms on Saturday last a number of other programmes was set to record with the same series CRID – FP.BBC.CO.UK/P8TGSA. This included Radio 3 and BBC RB1 as well as BBC1 and BBC 2. However the Programme CRID showed different information for each programme as I would expect. Anybody know how this is meant to work?
It is up to the broadcaster to decide what they consider is a “series”.
The freeview “series” is just a way to link a group of programmes and are not necessarily what the average TV viewer would regard as a traditional series.
The progamme information is not held against a particular programme CRID. Each entry in the epg is allocated a unique “Event Id” for that channel. The programme information is held against the Event Id. To take an example, the SD and HD broadcast of episode 4 ‘The Capture’ scheduled for broadcast on BBC ONE HD/SD have the same programme CRID but different programme information. This is only possible because the programme information is held against the event id, and not against the programme CRID.
GrahamRHK – 22 hours ago »
I assume a BBC “issue” which the HUMAX doesn’t handle properly by ignoring the programme CRID
With a “series” a recorder may ignore some of the events if they have the same programme CRID. Looking at one of the d-book versions it states that using the same programme CRID for 2 events within a series “prevents” duplicates being recorded, but it is not clear whether this is mandatory, or not, for a freeview recorder to check this.
Please would you explain with a bit more detail what you consider is an issue that could be caused by the BBC doing something wrong? From how it works, and from your description so far, I’m not following what the “issue” you refer to could be.
Quote:Please would you explain with a bit more detail what you consider is an issue that could be caused by the BBC doing something wrong? From how it works, and from your description so far, I’m not following what the “issue” you refer to could be.I put the word issue in quotes because I don’t actually know whether there is an issue or not. I just find it odd that selecting Last Night of the Proms on BBC1 would also schedule radio programmes and BBC RB programmes. Although with the same Series CRID it is logical to record all programmes with that ID. But why would all (now 7 I think) programmes share the same Series CRID across TV, Radio and RB channels. I would expect the scheduling algorithms (in the HUMAX or any other similar device) to also take note of the Programme CRID and ignore those with a different Programme CRID.
Just curious… Is there documentation about this protocol?
GrahamRHK – 1 hour ago »
Is there documentation about this protocol?
Yes, but it can be costly to get hold of, and there is a new edition bought out almost on a yearly basis.
The current protocol has to be compatible with recorders made a few years ago and so the 2011 edition, which can be got hold of thanks to wikileaks therefore is still a useful source of information concerning the various protocols. It is called “D-Book 7 Part A”.
If you do download a copy please don’t quote verbatim as my understanding is that would implicate the site with a breach of copyright.
GrahamRHK – 1 hour ago »
I put the word issue in quotes because I don’t actually know whether there is an issue or not. I just find it odd that selecting Last Night of the Proms on BBC1 would also schedule radio programmes and BBC RB programmes. Although with the same Series CRID it is logical to record all programmes with that ID. But why would all (now 7 I think) programmes share the same Series CRID across TV, Radio and RB channels.
That was just a BBC choice.
It is similar to the original post of this thread in that it is down to the broadcaster what the decide is part of a “Series” and what they think should be defined as separate series. The big difference between the two example sis that in A1944’s example A1944 wanted different series in the overall series to be merged as one “freeview” series, but in your example you could put a case for the Proms to be split into a number of separate series.
GrahamRHK – 1 hour ago »
I would expect the scheduling algorithms (in the HUMAX or any other similar device) to also take note of the Programme CRID and ignore those with a different Programme CRID.
The Series CRID, and the programme CRID, are two different things.
When looking for events with the same Series CRID as the original event selected from the epg to record, it takes note of the Series CRID and, (on the whole), ignores those with a different Series CRID.
Luke, thank you for all this. I get it now – most helpful. Amazing what one can learn from an excellent forum like this. Not a BBC “issue’ – just choice by the programme schedulers there. And it seems that HUMAX is “working as designed”. At least I have the option to delete!
I see the BBC have done it again. Tonight’s Pointless (BBC1-HD) was missing from my schedule, so I reprogrammed it. On investigation, even though they are in mid series, the Series CRID had completely changed.
from:
FP.BBC.CO.UK/M/5813
to:
FP.BBC.CO.UK/B/4UPSGY
You really have to watch the schedule like a hawk. It was never like this with my much loved, now deceased, Topfield.
A1944 – 1 hour ago » It was never like this with my much loved, now deceased, Topfield.
That would have recorded it OK? Even though the change in CRID?
Trev – 6 mins ago »
A1944 – 1 hour ago » It was never like this with my much loved, now deceased, Topfield.
That would have recorded it OK? Even though the change in CRID?
Definitely, because it didn’t need to rely on CRIDs. You could programme it by a search of part, or all, of the programme name as well as specifying a day/time range and/or other parameters. It was very flexible, you could make the search as simple or as complex as you liked, within reason.
I painted a very rosy picture of the old Topfield boxes above, but they are not without their problems, one important being that they suffer from a tendency to completely wipe everything off the hard disk if the signal quality gets poor, so you have to be very careful during lift conditions when the quality can nosedive.
And they are, of course, SD only.
Thanks. I see, steam reservations. None of your fancy modern stuff that Aunty keeps screwing up then.
Yes, wiping everything off the HDD could be a tad disconcerting.
Trev – 3 hours ago »
Thanks. I see, steam reservations. None of your fancy modern stuff that Aunty keeps screwing up then.
Yes, wiping everything off the HDD could be a tad disconcerting.
Exactly! Still much more reliable overall. In eight years I only had one disk wipe. In under two years I have had loads of problems with the 5000T, especially, though not exclusively, associated with sillies in the schedule. Don’t know how many times I have done a power down reset in that time.
Trev – 14 hours ago »
Thanks. I see, steam reservations. None of your fancy modern stuff that Aunty keeps screwing up then.
Yes, it could do Series Link as well, but you didn’t have to and I didn’t.
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