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Is SCD live (Saturday) not broadcast in 5.1 now ? It used to be 5.1 still have old shows which are 5.1. I know the recorded result are always 2.0. Currently watching week 4 which is last weeks and coming up as 2.0 as have all the others.
Currently using a Foxsat HDR other recordings like Electric Dreams do have 5.1 DD.
Thanks Graham, I miss the LFE channel the current bass is a little disappointing.
Reffub – 21 seconds ago »
Thanks Graham, I miss the LFE channel the current bass is a little disappointing.
There is no lfe channel (or front centre either) only 2 channels of audio (Its 2.0 not 2.1). If you want more bass assuming you have a AV receiver you need to adjust the crossover frequency used on your system and/or increase the subwoofer level in the manual speaker level setup options. In the the absence of a lfe the subwoofer gets the low frequencies from your front speaker crossover settings. The level depends on the gain figure set for the the bass channel.
Your AV amp may allow you to adjust levels just for the current programme.
Bear in mind any dsp options you set will overide the default options. For more Bass try something like Rock Concert
grahamlthompson – 1 hour ago »
Reffub – 21 seconds ago »
Thanks Graham, I miss the LFE channel the current bass is a little disappointing.
There is no lfe channel (or front centre either) only 2 channels of audio (Its 2.0 not 2.1). If you want more bass assuming you have a AV receiver you need to adjust the crossover frequency used on your system and/or increase the subwoofer level in the manual speaker level setup options. In the the absence of a lfe the subwoofer gets the low frequencies from your front speaker crossover settings. The level depends on the gain figure set for the the bass channel.
Your AV amp may allow you to adjust levels just for the current programme.
Bear in mind any dsp options you set will overide the default options. For more Bass try something like Rock Concert
“There is no lfe channel (or front centre either) only 2 channels of audio (Its 2.0 not 2.1).”
I know, that’s why I said I miss the LFE channel. There was a LFE channel last year and the year before that etc now there is not. I MISS IT, I thought that was a simple statement to make why couldn’t you understand it ?
Anyway thanks again for the first reply.
Reffub – 12 hours ago »
grahamlthompson – 1 hour ago »
Reffub – 21 seconds ago »
Thanks Graham, I miss the LFE channel the current bass is a little disappointing.
There is no lfe channel (or front centre either) only 2 channels of audio (Its 2.0 not 2.1). If you want more bass assuming you have a AV receiver you need to adjust the crossover frequency used on your system and/or increase the subwoofer level in the manual speaker level setup options. In the the absence of a lfe the subwoofer gets the low frequencies from your front speaker crossover settings. The level depends on the gain figure set for the the bass channel.
Your AV amp may allow you to adjust levels just for the current programme.
Bear in mind any dsp options you set will overide the default options. For more Bass try something like Rock Concert
“There is no lfe channel (or front centre either) only 2 channels of audio (Its 2.0 not 2.1).”
I know, that’s why I said I miss the LFE channel. There was a LFE channel last year and the year before that etc now there is not. I MISS IT, I thought that was a simple statement to make why couldn’t you understand it ?
Anyway thanks again for the first reply.
It was an odd post, why didn’t you miss the other 3 full range audio channels as well. You should be able to get the same bass response by making the adjustments I posted, so no reason to miss it. There’s no noticeable lack of bass on SDC this series compared to 5.1 previously using my Yamaha AV receiver, though there’s no front centre and rear surround output unless you turn on one of the DSP options.
“There’s no noticeable lack of bass on SDC this series compared to 5.1 previously using my Yamaha AV receiver, though there’s no front centre and rear surround output unless you turn on one of the DSP options………”
Talking of odd statements, I’d just like to point out that you can’t just “use” your Yamaha AV receiver to hear bass. It would really help if you had large full range speakers or better still a good powerful well set up subwoofer. So I’m not surprised you can’t hear/feel the difference as you think your AV receiver is more important than say a subwoofer which receives the .1 channel amplifies it and then outputs the actual sound !
Obviously I know many people buy weak inadequate subs that only provide limited bass and zero LFE for movies so it doesn’t surprise me that you can’t hear or feel the difference between SCD in 5.1 and 2.0.
Reffub – 2 minutes ago »
“There’s no noticeable lack of bass on SDC this series compared to 5.1 previously using my Yamaha AV receiver, though there’s no front centre and rear surround output unless you turn on one of the DSP options………”
Talking of odd statements, I’d just like to point out that you can’t just “use” your Yamaha AV receiver to hear bass. It would really help if you had large full range speakers or better still a good powerful well set up subwoofer. So I’m not surprised you can’t hear/feel the difference as you think your AV receiver is more important than say a subwoofer which receives the .1 channel amplifies it and then outputs the actual sound !
Obviously I know many people buy weak inadequate subs that only provide limited bass and zero LFE for movies so it doesn’t surprise me that you can’t hear or feel the difference between SCD in 5.1 and 2.0.
You are completely misunderstanding my post. I have a very large subwoofer and KEF Front, Left, Centre and Rears. The speakers alone were more than £1000.00. If I want more bass I can simply turn up the subwoofer volume control. Amp is 170W/Channel Subwoofer 600W.
I didn’t say I can’t hear the difference I said the Bass is the same, which it is. Dolby Digital audio channels are 100% discrete. If you don’t mess with the sound then in stereo then the left channel speakers go to the left front and the right ones to the right ones. Nothing goes to the other speakers in the system including the subwoofer. The AV receiver sets a crossover frequency that diverts audio in the approx range 20Hz to 120Hz to a subwoofer if you have one (The higher figure depends on the capability you tell set up how large your other speakers are). If you incorrectly identify these as large then switching from a 5.1 source to a 2.0 one will give a marked reduction in bass.
The point is that is having a .1 channel does not change in any way the amount of bass you get. It merely provides a seperate channel for the existing bass within the total sound spectrum. In stereo each channel carries the full audio range, as Bass is non directional you will get roughly equal bass from a pair of full range speakers. Without any sort of DSP then you will only get audio from the two front left and right speakers except for a connected subwoofer (which you don’t need if the speakers are large enough) If you have large speakers capable of full range audio reproduction there is no need for a subwoofer at all. Most of us don’t have the space for such large speakers so we use a system that allows the use of smaller satellite speakers. In the absence of a seperate Bass audio channel, the AV receiver simply extracts the audio below a preset level and sends it to the subwoofer rather than the satellite speakers. If the cross over frequency used to create a lfe channel in a 5.1 signal matches the one you have setup in your system the bass content will be identical. If you have a unsuitable cross over frequency then using a stereo source you could be sending a largish proportion of the sound that your subwoofer should be handling to your front speakers. In that event it will of course sound compressed.
If you aren’t getting audio from your subwoofer when playing stereo there is something wrong with your kit or more likely it’s set up.
Guessing you need to raise the crossover settings on whatever kit you are using so more of the left and right channel when gets sent to your subwoofer when stereo is being used.
I was probably using stereo HiFi valve kit and big speakers before you were born.
Dolby Digital
The most elaborate mode in common use involves five channels for normal-range speakers (20 Hz – 20,000 Hz) (right, center, left, right surround, left surround) and one channel (20 Hz – 120 Hz allotted audio) for the subwoofer driven low-frequency effects. Mono and stereo modes are also supported.
If I was to add a 5.1 version of SCD to a pro video editing package like Magix Video Pro X9 and down mix the audio from 5.1 to 2.0.
Remembering all 5 full range channels have the capability to handle the full lfe range and more.
lfe – split 50% to Front Right and Front Left
centre – split 50% to Front Right and Front Left
Rear Right 100% to Front Right
Rear Left 100% to Front Right
Using a professional Dolby Pro logic II surround encoder you can retain a lot of seperation using matrix technology when transferring rear surrounds to front and centre to left and right.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-pro-logic-ii.html
If you then play this back on a properly setup system with straight (unprocessed option) say with stereo crossover from front right and front left set to 120Hz. Anything below 120Hz is output to the subwoofer.
Everything above 120Hz on the right channel goes to the Front Right speaker
Everything above 120Hz on the left channel goes to the front left speaker.
Nothing goes to the centre and rear surrounds.
The bass should be the same as it was on the original 5.1 mix.
If the down mix was created using a Dolby Pro Logic encoder you will get an approximation of the original surround and centre dialogue channels (with some cross talk) if you select Pro Logic II processing.
Other than that modern AV receivers have lots of digital sound processing (DSP) options that can create the illusion of multichannel sound from just two stereo channels. For example the rear channels can be used to re-create the reverberation you would get in a large concert hall (effectively creating the echo of the orchestra bouncing of the walls of the hall.
It never was 5.1 it hasn’t been down mixed to 2.0.
So we’re not talking about down mixed 5.1 here it was only ever 2.0 channel same goes for last years results show only ever 2.0.
Reffub – 11 hours ago »
It never was 5.1 it hasn’t been down mixed to 2.0.
So we’re not talking about down mixed 5.1 here it was only ever 2.0 channel same goes for last years results show only ever 2.0.
No one said it has. Last years series the main show was 5.1. The results show has never been in 5.1 since the first series.
I was attempting to illustrate that you can go from 5.1 to 2.0 without losing any bass content. You can also create pseudo 5.1 from 2.0 without losing any bass it still finishes up coming from the subwoofer.
Would you expect someone with SACD player and playing back a SACD stereo disk (lossless audio) on a 5.1 system to lose the bass content, that is patently absurd.
Last year bass wise there was no difference at all between the main show and the results show.
You seem to be rather obtuse, you were clearly under the impression that in that in the absence of a .1 channel your subwoofer doesn’t work. It should work exactly the same if the recording was made in DD 2.0.
If you are finding a lack of bass on stereo content (CD TV whatever) compared to a 5.1 mix the issue is down to your equipment or the way it’s set up.
In 2.0 the two front channels contain the full range of frequencies possible including the lower frequencies. It’s down to the setup at your end depending on what speakers you use. You might have a pair of £5000.00 full range front speakers. If so there is little point in having a subwoofer. If as most of us you a small closed back enclosures that are very inefficient, they need a powerful amplifier and that the bass is handled by a seperate large speaker. This requires the amplifier to split the frequency sending the low frequency to the speaker designed to reproduce it.
When we used large bass reflex enclosures (these use the sound from the rear of the speaker and a tuned port to output the bass and as they are not sealed the speaker cone can move a lot more). A 15W valve or solid state can generate more audio than a 100W design feeding small speakers.
There’s a reason why you didn’t notice the lack of bass/LFE this season now it is mixed differently. Your sub is to small and weak to produce the lower frequencies at a level that you could ever appreciate them. So you’re just hearing the same easily produced higher bass frequencies as you did before.
I really get the feeling that you’ve never actually heard or more importantly never felt a proper home AV setup. If you want to do home AV properly you’ll need a setup that can get down low and more importantly loud, feel music on movies in night clubs etc, have gun shots sounds hit your chest, have vibrations in your seat that run up your spine and of course experience the obligatory trouser flapping with jet engines. (Obviously you can get all that with stereo !)
Increasing the crossover will put my whole system out of balance, the subs will take over and my setup will sound awfully. Subs don’t have too play the whole .1 channel my fronts are large enough to play the higher bass frequencies as my sub is too large to play the higher bass frequencies. I’ve got a lossless DTS-HD Master 2.0 Audio track that has a lovely low end, my set up is fine given a good mix with good dynamic range.
“You seem to be rather obtuse, you were clearly under the impression that in that in the absence of a .1 channel your subwoofer doesn’t work.”
That’s a really stupid comment as I never said that there wasn’t any bass with SCD of course there is bass, I just said the bass was disappointing compared to the old live 5.1. (Mind you I wish I hadn’t said that now as it just gave you an excuse to try to sound intelligent yet again.)
I do think you’re doing the old 5.1 SCD sound engineers an injustice, when it was mixed live it was great and went nice and low. As your system like most is incapable of producing lower frequencies at any decent volume you wouldn’t of appreciated it and obviously your not going to miss that low end now it is mixed differently.
Anyway for the third time thanks for your first reply, I just wanted to make sure my Foxsat HDR was behaving properly and it is and good luck getting some proper LFE out of your system.
If it helps I have a twin 15″ sealed sub in a solid oak cabinet powered by a High-Density 6000w amplifier with built in DSP control. I had a 1000w ported sub before that but sealed is so much better for music and movies.
Reffub – 10 minutes ago »
There’s a reason why you didn’t notice the lack of bass/LFE this season now it is mixed differently. Your sub is to small and weak to produce the lower frequencies at a level that you could ever appreciate them. So you’re just hearing the same easily produced higher bass frequencies as you did before.
I really get the feeling that you’ve never actually heard or more importantly never felt a proper home AV setup. If you want to do home AV properly you’ll need a setup that can get down low and more importantly loud, feel music on movies in night clubs etc, have gun shots sounds hit your chest, have vibrations in your seat that run up your spine and of course experience the obligatory trouser flapping with jet engines. (Obviously you can get all that with stereo !)
Increasing the crossover will put my whole system out of balance, the subs will take over and my setup will sound awfully. Subs don’t have too play the whole .1 channel my fronts are large enough to play the higher bass frequencies as my sub is too large to play the higher bass frequencies. I’ve got a lossless DTS-HD Master 2.0 Audio track that has a lovely low end, my set up is fine given a good mix with good dynamic range.
“You seem to be rather obtuse, you were clearly under the impression that in that in the absence of a .1 channel your subwoofer doesn’t work.”
That’s a really stupid comment as I never said that there wasn’t any bass with SCD of course there is bass, I just said the bass was disappointing compared to the old live 5.1. (Mind you I wish I hadn’t said that now as it just gave you an excuse to try to sound intelligent yet again.)
I do think you’re doing the old 5.1 SCD sound engineers an injustice, when it was mixed live it was great and went nice and low. As your system like most is incapable of producing lower frequencies at any decent volume you wouldn’t of appreciated it and obviously your not going to miss that low end now it is mixed differently.
Anyway for the third time thanks for your first reply, I just wanted to make sure my Foxsat HDR was behaving properly and it is and good luck getting some proper LFE out of your system.
If it helps I have a twin 15″ sealed sub in a solid oak cabinet powered by a High-Density 6000w amplifier with built in DSP control. I had a 1000w ported sub before that but sealed is so much better for music and movies.
I say again 5.1 does not in any way increase the bass capability over 2.0. Why you think it does baffles me. If I could be bothered I could set up a video editor and analyse the audio to prove it. There’s no doubt a good 5.1 mix improves the sound no end, but it does not increase the potential bass in any way. I could easily remix a current version to 2.1 but it would be a totally pointless exercise. There is no content at all below 20Hz on any Dolby Digital channel. That’s as low as it goes. DTS/Dolby Digital plus improves the dynamic range over ac3 but again the lowest freqency is 50Hz. The higher bitrates of DTS has more dynamic range.
“I say again 5.1 does not in any way increase the bass capability over 2.0. Why you think it does baffles me.”
What baffles me is that you completely ignore the fact that the show was mixed live in 5.1 by BBC sound engineers, why do you insist on presuming that the sound engineer put the exact same bass in to the current 2.0 as they did in a 5.1. It’s not called a bass channel is it.
The only reason you think the SCD stereo sounds/feels the same as the old 5.1 is because on your setup it does. Maybe it’s time to upgrade you obviously can’t produce the dB needed to fully appreciate low frequency sound.
Reffub – 24 minutes ago »
“I say again 5.1 does not in any way increase the bass capability over 2.0. Why you think it does baffles me.”
What baffles me is that you completely ignore the fact that the show was mixed live in 5.1 by BBC sound engineers, why do you insist on presuming that the sound engineer put the exact same bass in to the current 2.0 as they did in a 5.1. It’s not called a bass channel is it.
The only reason you think the SCD stereo sounds/feels the same as the old 5.1 is because on your setup it does. Maybe it’s time to upgrade you obviously can’t produce the dB needed to fully appreciate low frequency sound.
Because the sound is recorded by microphones with the same frequency response. They can’t add bass which isn’t there in the first place. They can move it about within a 5.1 mix but basically that’s it.
Anyway this is pointless, I am out of here. If I can find a recording of the last season I may come back.
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