'All 4' app

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Quite why 4OD works on your TV and not 100% with the hb1000s I can’t explain,

It’s just the same using our 1000s and always has been. It will play up to the first ad break then it just hangs as it’s about to go back to the programme. The screen goes all blocky with purple and green blotches.

I can then do exactly the same using Chromecast with the same programme and it works perfectly 100% of the time. It’s only ever been an issue for the Humax with All4.

[Anonymous]

Faust – 3 minutes ago

It’s just the same using our 1000s and always has been. It will play up to the first ad break then it just hangs as it’s about to go back to the programme.

Come on Faust, ISP and location? I’m not trawling through 1,000 odd posts to find out. Also if you have time, tracert and pathping?

[Anonymous]

damian – 8 hours ago  » 

Faust – 3 minutes ago

It’s just the same using our 1000s and always has been. It will play up to the first ad break then it just hangs as it’s about to go back to the programme.

Come on Faust, ISP and location? I’m not trawling through 1,000 odd posts to find out. Also if you have time, tracert and pathping?

First Sky then PlusNet, now BT Fibre on a full 52 Mb connection, West Mids. It’s the only app that causes issues. Been a nightmare from the start.

[Anonymous]

Faust – 9 hours ago

First Sky then PlusNet, now BT Fibre on a full 52 Mb connection, West Mids. It’s the only app that causes issues. Been a nightmare from the start.

thanks for the reply Faust, I was hoping you’d be on virgin media so that’s blown my theory out of the water.

I realise it’s pretty academic as you use chromecast, but is there any chance you could run the

nperf.com speed test and also run from a dos/cmd window

tracert 4od.com

pathping 4od.com

and post the results? There are clearly different issues at hand here and it’d be nice to make some sense of it

[grahamlthompson]

I’m on virgin (70Mbps) . Also can use a vpn service. I can try tomorrow with and without vpn (any preference as to country chosen for IP address ?) if it is likely to help. All4 works for me but it suffered audio drop out after the ads for a short period and the picture quality isn’t very good.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Graham, any stats would be useful just to see what’s normal. We’ve seen smart dns makes a difference and a very small sample of virgin media.

Clearly All4/4OD are bring too clever with smart ads, feedback and content protection which leave the Humax balanced on a knife edge. My adsl with lower latency/timing has no problems. I’d like to think using a vpn would probably break your All4 or at least make it more problematic. Comparing stats where All4/4OD does and doesn’t work should give us a better picture.

At the moment users don’t know whether All4/4OD problems are local environment, intermittent ISP, bad content loaded or a combination. We can safely say Smart DNS is an issue. Comparing enough stats might allow us to spot a breaking point.

In the meantime and if I get time I’ll see if I can break All4/4OD on my hb1000s and work backwards, hopefully without upsetting the dynamic line management.

[grahamlthompson]

First test – No VPN (Will check VPN with UK IP Address later) – Doesn’t mean anything to me

Code:

Wireless connected laptop

Without VPN

Download 56.28 Mb/s Upload 4.991 MB/s Latency 19.07 ms

tracert 4od.com

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.14393]
(c) 2016 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:Usersgltho_000>tracert 4od.com

Tracing route to 4od.com [185.28.202.30]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.1.1
2 16 ms 8 ms 9 ms 10.104.60.1
3 9 ms 9 ms 10 ms wolv-core-2a-xe-521-0.network.virginmedia.net [80.3.145.1]
4 * * * Request timed out.
5 * * * Request timed out.
6 * * * Request timed out.
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 15 ms 23 ms 21 ms nrth-ic-1-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.218]
9 16 ms 16 ms 15 ms m674-mp2.cvx1-b.lis.dial.ntli.net [62.254.42.162]
10 29 ms 17 ms 14 ms ae-11.r24.londen12.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [195.66.224.138]
11 15 ms 14 ms 16 ms ae-21.r00.londen10.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.24]
12 15 ms 44 ms 26 ms 82.112.101.98
13 19 ms 32 ms 32 ms tfm20-dist-3750e-b.ioko.net [83.98.99.2]
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 * * * Request timed out.
25 * * * Request timed out.
26 * * * Request timed out.
27 * * * Request timed out.
28 * * * Request timed out.
29 * * * Request timed out.
30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

C:Usersgltho_000>

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.14393]
(c) 2016 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:Usersgltho_000>pathping 4od.com

Tracing route to 4od.com [185.28.202.30]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 Grahams [192.168.1.19]
1 192.168.1.1
2 10.104.60.1
3 wolv-core-2a-xe-521-0.network.virginmedia.net [80.3.145.1]
4 * * *
Computing statistics for 75 seconds…
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 Grahams [192.168.1.19]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 1ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.1.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 — 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 10.104.60.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 10ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% wolv-core-2a-xe-521-0.network.virginmedia.net [80.3.145.1]

Trace complete.

C:Usersgltho_000>

[Anonymous]

damian – 16 hours ago  » 

Faust – 9 hours ago

First Sky then PlusNet, now BT Fibre on a full 52 Mb connection, West Mids. It’s the only app that causes issues. Been a nightmare from the start.

thanks for the reply Faust, I was hoping you’d be on virgin media so that’s blown my theory out of the water.

I realise it’s pretty academic as you use chromecast, but is there any chance you could run the

nperf.com speed test and also run from a dos/cmd window

tracert 4od.com

pathping 4od.com

and post the results? There are clearly different issues at hand here and it’d be nice to make some sense of it

Not really as I run a Mac.

I’m absolutely sure it has more to do with the app or All 4 servers than problems with the consumer.

[grahamlthompson]

Results with VPN

Code:

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.14393]
(c) 2016 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:Usersgltho_000>pathping 4od.com

Tracing route to 4od.com [185.28.202.30]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
0 Grahams [10.8.8.142]
1 10.8.8.1
2 rt0-cr.ldn.as200039.net [185.38.150.1]
3 ae20.rt0.cr.as25369.net [217.146.94.188]
4 ae1.rt0.hex.bandwidth.co.uk [5.226.136.36]
5 ntt.hex.bandwidth.co.uk [83.231.204.169]
6 ae-2.r04.londen05.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.6.9]
7 ae-0.r24.londen12.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.140]
8 ae-21.r00.londen10.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.24]
9 82.112.101.98
10 * * *
Computing statistics for 225 seconds…
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 Grahams [10.8.8.142]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 15ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 10.8.8.1
20/ 100 = 20% |
2 16ms 21/ 100 = 21% 1/ 100 = 1% rt0-cr.ldn.as200039.net [185.38.150.1]
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 17ms 21/ 100 = 21% 1/ 100 = 1% ae20.rt0.cr.as25369.net [217.146.94.188]
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 17ms 21/ 100 = 21% 1/ 100 = 1% ae1.rt0.hex.bandwidth.co.uk [5.226.136.36]
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 15ms 21/ 100 = 21% 1/ 100 = 1% ntt.hex.bandwidth.co.uk [83.231.204.169]
0/ 100 = 0% |
6 16ms 21/ 100 = 21% 1/ 100 = 1% ae-2.r04.londen05.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.6.9]
0/ 100 = 0% |
7 17ms 21/ 100 = 21% 1/ 100 = 1% ae-0.r24.londen12.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.140]
0/ 100 = 0% |
8 16ms 20/ 100 = 20% 0/ 100 = 0% ae-21.r00.londen10.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.24]
0/ 100 = 0% |
9 25ms 20/ 100 = 20% 0/ 100 = 0% 82.112.101.98

Trace complete.

C:Usersgltho_000>

[Anonymous]

grahamlthompson – 12 hours ago  » 

Results with VPN

Thanks Graham, it’s useful to see a trace via Virgin Media (VM). Each hop is a network device the route goes through, not all devices respond to the ping so timeout which isn’t helpful for diagnosis. The VM route stays within VM.net for a while, no idea what it’s doing on hops 4,5,6,7. I wasn’t sure if VM use a proxy which might have explained some of the problems with VM.

If you look at the VPN route the trace gets there in 9 hops, similar to my route via plusnet.

If you look at #29 Wotu2’s trace using the smart dns that fails, hops 6,7,8 really struggle so no wonder that it does not work. The smart dns that does work, albeit with pauses, has 3 hops that timeout, but these devices are likely to be configured to ignore pings, which again is unhelpful as we lose some diagnostic stats.

I won’t get to test my hb1000s until the weekend, however I’ve tried without success to break All4/4OD on the fvp4000t which I assume runs similar code.

I can’t use VM or Sky’s DNS without being part of their network unfortunately. I’ve tried BT, google, openDNS amongst others and a smart DNS and couldn’t break All4/4OD, all had 9 hops

I did come across a really useful DNS tool, namebench:

https://namebench.en.softonic.com/

it took 20mins or so first time to run, but quicker thereafter. I’ve not used it before and it times generic name lookup’s across different DNS providers. My plusnet DNS has an average name lookup time of 80ms and a maximum of 3 seconds. OpenDNS similar average of 80ms but nothing longer than 1.2 seconds so quite a bit quicker. You might want to give it a try, I found it interesting.

I noticed that the adverts won’t work without DNS and each advert a new lookup so anything that speeds up lookups can only help.

You didn’t mention if there was any difference in service between VPN and non-VPN. In theory VPN should have been slower and more problematic, but we can’t see what’s happening with hops 4,5,6,7 on non-VPN. If you get chance, next time you have problems with All4/4OD, could you check what happens when using VPN? as your VPN by-passes the VM timeouts. It’s not important so backburner stuff, but it’d be good if we could get a bit closer to seeing where it breaks.

[Anonymous]

Faust – 14 hours ago

Not really as I run a Mac.

I’m absolutely sure it has more to do with the app or All 4 servers than problems with the consumer.

Clearly there’s a difference between devices, i.e. chromecast/humax etc. and chromecast handles All4/4OD better.

As far as I know, Virgin Media (VM) have their own distinct network and more or less everybody else Sky, BT, TalkTalk etc. piggyback off BT’s openreach. If you take UK users there does seem to be more people (3 out of 4, a massive sample I know) having problems with All4/4OD on VM

I can’t ignore the fact that All4/4OD works fine on my 3Mbps connection and it doesn’t on your 52Mbps BT. There can’t be much difference beween my hb1000s and the hdr 1000/1010/1100S I’d imagine the software is exactly the same and we both use the same openreach backbone I assume.

There is a traceroute equivalent for Mac under ‘network utility’ and I believe there’s a pathping equivalent called ‘mtr’ which can be run from a terminal window. I realise it’s all pretty academic as you use chromecast, but if it were my connection I’d want to run nperf.com as well or a similar speed checker just to double check whether there’s any contention issues during busy periods or just general network issues. For reference Graham’s 70Mbps VM has a throughput of 56Mbps during a quiet period. My upto 24Mbps adsl comes in at a real 3Mbps and works fine so raw speed isn’t the problem, quality has to be an issue.

If there’s anybody else out there, a bit bored, and All4/4OD doesn’t work or does work with a change/tweak it’d be interesting to see some more stats

[Anonymous]

virgin media 44.38 4.881 24.83

tracert 4od.com

Tracing route to 4od.com [185.28.202.30]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms routerlogin.net [192.168.1.1]

2 9 ms 10 ms 9 ms 10.137.60.1

3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms sgyl-core-2b-xe-311-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.252.129.145]

4 * * * Request timed out.

5 * * * Request timed out.

6 * * * Request timed out.

7 52 ms 20 ms 16 ms nrth-ic-1-ae1-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.254.42.218]

8 19 ms 18 ms 17 ms m674-mp2.cvx1-b.lis.dial.ntli.net [62.254.42.162]

9 19 ms 17 ms 20 ms ae-11.r24.londen12.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [195.66.224.138]

10 19 ms 18 ms 18 ms ae-21.r00.londen10.uk.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.4.24]

11 20 ms 43 ms 28 ms 82.112.101.98

12 22 ms 20 ms 20 ms tfm20-dist-3750e-b.ioko.net [83.98.99.2]

13 * * * Request timed out.

14 * * * Request timed out.

15 * * * Request timed out.

16 * * * Request timed out.

17 * * * Request timed out.

18 * * * Request timed out.

19 * * * Request timed out.

20 * * * Request timed out.

21 * * * Request timed out.

22 * * * Request timed out.

23 * * * Request timed out.

24 * * * Request timed out.

25 * * * Request timed out.

26 * * * Request timed out.

27 * * * Request timed out.

28 * * * Request timed out.

29 * * * Request timed out.

30 * * * Request timed out.

Trace complete.

pathping 4od.com

Tracing route to 4od.com [185.28.202.30]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

0 Tom-Z50 [192.168.1.5]

1 routerlogin.net [192.168.1.1]

2 10.137.60.1

3 sgyl-core-2b-xe-311-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.252.129.145]

4 * * *

Computing statistics for 75 seconds…

Source to Here This Node/Link

Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address

0 Tom-Z50 [192.168.1.5]

0/ 100 = 0% |

1 7ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% routerlogin.net [192.168.1.1]

0/ 100 = 0% |

2 — 100/ 100 =100% 100/ 100 =100% 10.137.60.1

0/ 100 = 0% |

3 115ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% sgyl-core-2b-xe-311-0.network.virginmedia.net [62.252.129.145]

Trace complete.

[Anonymous]

Same issue. This has been happening for months. Fully up to date on software. Pixelated blocks after first ad break. Completely unusable and frustrating. Ran through a factory reset but did not fix the issue.

[Anonymous]

Screenshot

[Anonymous]

Hi. Just to add to this thread, I’ve given up watching All4 catch up using my Humax for the exact same reasons described. That is, it’s fine until just after the first advert break, then ‘blocky McBlock face’.

The Humax is attached to a Samsung Smart TV using the same wifi connection as the Humax and All4 works absolutely fine on it. Other catch up apps (BBC Iplayer, Netflix) work great on the Humax but, obviously, they do not have advert breaks. I havn’t tried ITV as the app is poor on the Humax (why is that?).

Anyway, I have concluded that the issue is to do with either the Humax device or the All4 app on the device. I’m not too bothered as I’ve an alternative but it would be great if it could be fixed.

[Author]

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